Hey folks, welcome back to the Stronger is Better podcast brought to you by Starting Strength Gyms. Today we are talking to McKenna Murphy and Pete Truppos, I guess, her coach. I just learned that Pete's also coached her father, so I've got a long lineage of Starting Strength fans here. So guys, let's just get into it. We haven't done much prep, so all I know is that McKenna is a golfer, a good golfer, and that Starting Strength has helped with performance, has helped with your. golf, and hopefully a lot of other things too. So I'll just start asking questions and we'll get into it. How old are you, McKenna? I'm 18. 18 years old. All right. And then you're in high school? I just graduated a month ago. Okay. congratulations uh so yeah golf is i'm sure you know golf is golf is huge uh a lot of a lot of men play golf a lot of older men play golf a lot of women play golf and i've always heard people tell. me like if i've had somebody drop in for a session come up and get some coaching from me and they have they have golf as kind of a hobby you know they'll say things like as you're coaching them they'll say like oh this is like a golf swing it's where it has to be whatever you know whatever they're equating i've by the way i've never played golf outside of like uh going to the driving range and making the ball go like that way every single time so so i have no frame of reference so i'm coming into this blind but um anyway so in terms of like the technical aspects which i don't know that i necessarily agree with because like squatting is pretty simple to do. but there are things to remember so there's a technical aspect and then also for sure for the hobbyists out there and then we've also had some experience with some some high level players and professional athletes um, Where things like club head speed and then the ball speed definitely improves like measurably, right? So I worked with a kid in his early 20s in Europe who was a pretty high-level guy. And then we actually – I don't have the numbers in front of me, but we actually tracked his numbers. And all of those metrics just went up tremendously even within the first like eight weeks of training. And he was a young, pretty strong guy already. So super interesting. I think there's a lot to talk about here. And I think it will be cool to get a perspective from you as a younger athlete too because old guys are one thing. But people actually training and performing and doing something like this along like a direct performance aspect will be really interesting. So why don't we start with – Pete, why don't we start with you, just coaching experience. I mean the people know who you are generally, but give us a quick rundown and then we'll do the same with McKenna. Just my starting strength coach background. Whatever you want to do, man. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I've been a starting strength coach. since 2016. So you've been head coach of Starting Strength in Orlando since it opened in 2021. And yeah, so almost going on 10 years now. Also have the privilege of being the minister of propaganda for Starting Strength company and running the social media stuff. You just outed yourself, man. What's that? You just outed yourself. Now everyone knows. That's fine. They can try to find me if they want. But so yeah, and we've been we're going on closing in our fourth year here at Starting Strength in Orlando, and building and growing pretty strong. So yeah. Very nice. Did you come, I mean, I know some of this, but you came from a personal training background, right? And then I mean, you had other jobs, you did other things, but did you start with Focus in New York? Yeah, I did that, but that was after 20 years of retail working for Best Buy. at Apple and realizing I didn't want to do that anymore. So I enrolled myself in the Focus program in New York to learn this stuff. And then did a brief stint as a personal trainer there as I was working towards getting my certification in Brooklyn when we still used to travel for those seminars. Yeah, right, right. Was the curriculum – let's talk just briefly about focus. So was your education there? Did you have – I mean was Brent around? Was Brent there? Was starting strength part of that thing? That's how I had learned about it was I had done a camp with Wolf and Brent. And Brent was one of the coaches that told me about focus and explained to me what it was. And that's how I heard about it. So when I decided I wanted to be a coach, I had looked at – talked to him about going to focus. I had enrolled. It was a six-month program going full-time. So fortunately I was in a position where I could just work part-time and go to school. And so I enrolled myself in that really to get a lot of the academic stuff, right? So the anatomy, the physics, physiology, and that kind of stuff that I just didn't have a background for that I needed to prepare myself to do. To become an SSC. And that was a – really worthwhile, you know, time, money well spent, um, doing that. Yeah. And then, um, you came to Texas in, uh, was it 2019, 2018, 2017. I decided I was going to go to Dallas and plant my flag in Dallas and, uh, got to spend more time hanging out with Nick Delgadillo, which is always a plus, uh, going up to Wichita falls once in a while. And I was there for a year and then, uh, moved to Florida in 2019, uh, in Orlando just to be closer to family and been here ever since. So, and then the gym obviously came after that, right? So you were in Orlando and then Scott, uh, Scott and, uh, Oh my God, Scott and Kelly, right? And Kelly. Yeah. Scott and Kelly were, uh, talking about the gym and then the connection just happened, right? Yep. Yep. And I, yeah. And it's been great ever since they, um, wonderful people to work with. They have a really successful and booming ice cream business locally. Um, so they're, they're, they're kind of local celebrities. At least Kelly's kind of a local celebrity. But they work out at the gym. So when we tell people, hey, Kelly of Kelly's Homemade Ice Cream works out, they're like, really? It works out at the gym. But, yeah, they've been so busy with the ice cream business. They've let me have carte blanche with the gym. And, yeah, they've been great to work with. Couldn't ask for better partners. Very cool. All right. And then, McKenna, let's go. What you got? Give us a rundown. So I've been playing golf for around 10 years. And I think when I was around 12 or 13, I kind of started working out, just wanting to hit the ball farther and stuff. And I was in a golf academy, the Mike Bender Golf Academy. And we would work out. And it was good and it was helpful. But I kind of wanted something that I could see more progress clearly with. So in the gym and also just with my... distance and my club head speed so my dad had been working with Pete for a while and I went to him just saying like I I kind of want to change what I'm doing in the gym I really want to hit. it farther and so he had he told me that I should start lifting with Pete and in the gym so around two years ago my mom and I went she she initially came with me just to kind of keep me company and as a way for us to spend time together but she's also loves it now so yeah we've been lifting for, about two years now and I've I've seen so many helpful things in my golf game and just. in everything in my life since then that's pretty cool yeah let's go let's go through all that stuff so we'll probably spend the whole rest of the time just on on those you, specific topics so let me let's start with let's start with just just golf in general so you said you've been doing, it for eight years. So you started when you were around eight years old. Where did that come from? Is your family full of golfers? Is it just a sport that you picked up? How did that start? Yeah. So a lot of my dad's side of the family plays golf. My dad, my grandpa. And I had a. cousin who she played golf at the University of Illinois. She was really good. So it definitely ran in the family. And my sister also plays. So I kind of just started as a way to spend time with my dad. And yeah, I took off from there. So when you say all these individuals in your family play golf, at what level? Is this a recreational hobby? Or did anybody play, like it? You said, was it your sister played at the University of Illinois? My cousin. Your cousin. Okay. And then anybody else played like semi-professional or college or anything like that? Well, my dad, he didn't play in college. But kind of right before I was born, he was trying to go pro. And then I came around and he couldn't really do that anymore. But he was really good. But yeah, the only other actually my uncle, he I don't think he played in college, but he was really good, too. So the only other family member who played like really high level or in college was my cousin at Illinois. OK, gotcha. Gotcha. And let's let's give everybody some context about why we're talking to you. Right. So, like, how good are you? That's a funny question. Well, I'm this fall. I'm going to South Alabama to play golf. D1 on a scholarship. Yes. Oh, my gosh. I don't know how to talk about myself like that. What was the big tournament that you won the world? I won like the world championship. It's for the U.S. Kids Golf Tour. Girls from age 15 to 18 from all over the world go to play. It's in Pinehurst in North Carolina. And last summer, I've been playing that tournament since I was 11. So every single year, that was the one tournament I really wanted to win. And last summer, I won there. And that was probably one of the highlights of my golf life. Sure. How competitive is that? I mean, we can make some assumptions, and it sounds like it's probably pretty damn competitive. But from your perspective, how hard is it to win that tournament? I definitely – it was very competitive. All the girls I played with – it's three days. All the girls I played with were going on to play college golf. So, yeah, I definitely had to play like three days of really solid golf. three days of my best golf to win. It was a great win. Congratulations, by the way, on that. Thank you. You want to tell them your handicap? My handicap is plus three, which means... I had to ask for that. Yeah, same. What does that mean? It means that golf courses are rated based on how hard they are. Par for most golf courses is 72. 72. The harder the course is, the higher the rating will be. A plus three handicap means that. on average, you're three under the course rating. If the course rating is 72, you would shoot 69, or if it was 75, you would shoot 72, if that makes sense. It does. Yeah, it does. So the handicap is... Is based off of... a course or is it like an average of like for any given course you'll be hitting three under yeah it's just an average of all of your rounds and so there's handicap which is all of your. rounds tournament and just practice and then um for your rankings like junior golf rankings they take only your tournament rounds which for that i'm um plus one which is so i would be shooting one under in average on tournaments how how close were you in so you've done it every year that you said since you were 11 is that what you said yes that tournament yeah um how close have you been in the past i think my best finish before last year was 15th place whoa yeah wow so you went. from 15th to first yeah are you yeah so we're dead lifting and squatting man that's it yeah that's what i'm gonna assume, I assume, and we could just stop the interview right now. I'm sure there's more to it than that, and we'll get into it for sure. More kind of about the tournament. When you show up, are you competing against – I mean, when you show up, are you seeing girls that you recognize from last year? You know, is it kind of – I mean, there's obviously going to be newer girls coming in. There's girls that are aging out. But are there – like, did you have rivals, basically? Do you have, like, an arch nemesis there who you were trying to beat? No, I wouldn't say so. I mean, I definitely saw a lot of the same girls from the year before, but I wouldn't say I have, like, any one person who I'm, like, trying to beat. But, yeah, it was a lot of the same girls as the year before, a lot of really good players. Yeah, cool. Yeah, so are you – can you – and not that this is super useful, but I think it would be interesting to talk about. But, like, can you – thinking about years past, are there – their, uh, competitors that you were going against that you were like moving past or that were moving past you, you know what I'm saying? Like, is it, you know, there's kind of like a cohort, and within that group, there's, you know, a top five, top, top 10 or whatever. And then they're going to be moving back and forth. So how did you, uh, did you think about that at all? Or is that just the thing that guys only do? I didn't really think about it, but something that I did know afterwards was, um, well I played with, um, the girl who won either the year before or two. years before. So yeah, I mean, golf, like it changes a lot. Like a lot of different people can win it. Like, especially in that group, there isn't like one person who's way better than anyone else. So, right. Right. What did, what would you, um, yeah, I guess we can kind of get into the, the training aspect of it. And then I have a bunch of questions just about, uh, training for golf and practicing for golf that I think will be interesting for the audience. So, um, what do you, for that tournament specifically, what do you attribute the success to? And by the. way, well, let me back up. When was that? Was that last year sometime? July of last year. Okay, so last summer. So would you say that you spent most of your effort preparing for that ahead of it? Or is it just kind of like a thing that pops up and you do it? I mean, I play tournaments throughout the whole year. So I kind of, I guess, I guess the whole year I'm kind of preparing for each one, like one at a time. But I mean, I know every year that I'm going to play in that. So I. guess it is something that I think about. Okay. So how does, how does it go in terms of preparing, for either the season or the year or the, or the, the big tournaments? For golf wise or? Yeah, golf wise. Yep. Um, just, I look at my stats a lot with my coach and we usually, We do, like, more technical stuff when I have kind of a while before my next tournament. And then once I feel good with, like, my technique and my swing and everything, then usually the week before I do a lot of performance-based practice, and just, like, playing a lot on the course. I think, I guess a lot of people kind of get stuck in, like, practicing, like, practicing their swing. But I usually try to play a lot leading up to an event just to get used to scoring and all the things that can come up. On the actual course that you're going to be, that the tournament is held on? Is that what you mean? Yeah, so I, usually for a tournament I have one round to practice on the course before it starts. Okay. But that course I had played a bunch of times before, so I knew it going in and I knew kind of specifically. things that I needed to practice going into it, just based on how the course is, how the grass is, and stuff like that. Okay, cool. And then for that specific tournament last year, did you do anything different than normal? So in other words, what made the difference from 2023 to 2024 in your performance? There were a few things physically. Basically, I learned a couple new shots in chipping, which the greens at that course are super fast, so you need to be able to spin your shots a lot more than normal. So I kind of learned that with my coach leading up to it. But I would say the biggest difference between those two years was more of mental. I was, the year before, I hadn't committed to college. And I was kind of in that process. So, yeah, I would say just having more confidence overall helped me last year. Gotcha. Okay. And then so you said you've been training at the gym for two years now? Yes. So you have been there for about a year then leading up to that tournament. Okay, cool. And then, yeah, let's get into the strength and conditioning aspect of it. Well, what are your thoughts or your opinion? And we'll get Pete's too on how barbell training fits into this. And did it help with the win? Did it help overall with your performance at your other tournaments? And anything else you can think of in terms of how strength fits into the golf picture? So we do a lot of speed training for golf where, like, we'll just go out and hit five or ten drivers just to swing as fast as we can. And I would. do that before I started lifting but I never could really see a big difference from each time I did it so I think in order to train speed it's it was really good for me to get like the core I guess foundation of being stronger to like take that strength and be able to work it into speed training um and I would say in the first maybe five or six months of lifting I saw I definitely. was starting to swing faster um I at one point I got 10 miles of clubhead speed more and I was definitely hitting the ball farther but something actually that I just realized after my most recent tournament um that my dad mentioned too is that I'm hitting the ball a lot straighter and more consistent and I think a lot of that is because I'm stronger now and I'm able to repeat the same swing over you, over and not letting like fatigue change my swing, especially because a lot of the courses. we play are pretty hard to walk. So you can get really tired. But now I feel like even if I am tired, I'm still able to repeat my same swing the same way each time. So I think that as much as clubhead speed or distance, that's also been a huge thing that has helped my golf game. Right. Yeah. I'm going to get Pete's thoughts here in just a second, but let me make some comments or questions. So a 10 mile per hour, it's mile per hour, right? Was it the ball speed. that went up 10 or the clubhead speed? Clubhead speed. Okay. How common is that in girls your age to have a 10 mile per hour increase? Because you guys are growing, right? So part of it is going to be just getting bigger and then taking advantage of your life. Like new size and just being stronger automatically because you're growing. But for somebody who's training as much as you or practicing as much as you, what's like an expected increase in club head speed from like year to year? Definitely not 10. Like that was – I was really surprised about that. I would say if you can increase five miles per hour in a year, that's really good. But usually I would say if you're like really working on speed between three and five miles per hour in a year would be – that would be good. So 10 was really shocking but obviously that's a good thing. That's really cool. And it's going to be a combination. So to kind of break this down, the club head speed is going to be a combination obviously of technique and then also your ability to push into the ground and then transfer. Is that it? into the ball, right? So there's a heavy technique component, but everybody, I won't say everybody, but I think it's easy for people to dismiss the strength component of that and how important it is, not only for the coordination of like, you know, the coordination and the sequence of the movement is obviously practice and specific practice for golf. But if all that's bolstered by a stronger, a stronger base, a stronger foundation, a more solid connection to the floor, and anytime you move, and your feet are static, right, but you're you are moving. So you're trying to move, you're pushing into the floor, or into the ground, you're just able to push harder, and then all that transfers into into that, into that faster clubhead speed. So, and then also, yeah, you're walking all over the place for, how long, how long, how long are you walking during a typical course? Um, well, miles, I think it's, it's probably around six miles, six to seven miles out there four to five hours. Right. So yeah. And that's another thing for sure. And that's another thing that can't be discounted, right? It's, um, you are, you are walking around, um, and then, um, having to go through these, these stations and then performing and then walking more and then walking more. Right. So, uh, our, our contention is that getting stronger makes everything easier. And I think this is, this is just like a, a pretty clear case of that. Right. So the, the walking becomes easier and then you're able to produce more force against the, against the ground, which translates into a higher club head speed. If the technique is there. And I bet, I bet there's even people who don't have good technique who are really, really strong, who can, um, who can hit the, hit the bar ball pretty hard, but it's always like a, you know, especially at your level, right. It has to be the combination of both. You have to have the technique. And you have to have the increase in strength and conditioning. Um, Pete, you got any, any thoughts on all this? So it was interesting because it wasn't one of those metrics that I was aware of, right? My concern was just getting her consistent and adding weight to the bar and just getting her stronger and hoping that, you know, that strength we say is the tide that raises the rest of the boat. So I knew it was going to have some effect on it. And we were talking earlier before we were sort of reporting about the fatigue effect, which isn't something that I had considered. But when she had come back to the gym and told me, Oh yeah, my club head speed is going, nuts. We started looking it up because it wasn't from 90 to a hundred. Um, yeah, like 89 to 98, 89, 98. So, and then we looked it up and the LP LPGA, so grown women, LPGA average club head speed is about 96, 97 miles an hour. Nice. So 17 year old came in, lifted for however long before we measured it, five or five months, six months. And, you know, it was hitting the same, or excuse me, was swinging the club at the same speed as, you know, LPGA grown women. So we knew we had something up. bat and then we started looking at what increases to your drive which were about what would you say. um like 10 to 20 yards maybe 10 to 15 yards which is pretty significant when i was talking to other golf you know other guys in the gym that are really into golf they're like wow that's pretty significant um so you know the metrics just started to rise that we we could tie back to strength and look at that and said yeah obviously this is helping we definitely need to keep an eye on on this and make certain that you know to the extent that we can be. consistent we're consistent you know obviously for for younger golfers and folks like mckenna they're always constantly traveling doing tournaments and that kind of stuff so we kind of we had to work around some of that um so whenever we had her for a few weeks straight make certain we're getting there three times and then we just kind of work around whatever else we had to just kind of keep in, top end strength there, Um, and making certain that, you know, we were pulling back when she had a tournament. So we weren't, she wasn't going into it, beat feeling beat up from the training. Um, so we, we, we made certain that we've coordinated, we coordinated those things and then got it in where we could and made certain that we just preserve that top end, whether it was come in and just pull a couple of heavy singles and maybe, you know, a couple, a couple of back offsets and that kind of stuff, just to kind of keep it primed. Um, so, so it wasn't, you know, completely diminishing if she had to be out for a week or so. Um, but we didn't do anything fancy other than the novice linear progression, Matt, looking at her book before coming here. I mean, she started off, you know, squatting like 75 pounds for deadlifting, 75 pounds. And then, um, I think one rep max at this point was what, two 15, two 20, something like that. I still want to get, before she leaves for school, I still want to get her to pull two wheels for a single, see if that's possible. Um, but you know, squat went up to squatting in the mid, you know, one, one fifties, one sixties, uh, for triples. Um. So what? like empty bar what's that from what uh from about 65 75 to start yep um so you know we more than double the strength across the board and all all of the lifts from the time that she started. um so we have the we have the you know we have the training data to show that yeah there were some significant strength gains in this time and you can kind of correlate that with performance and things like club head speed and um uh but you know driver distance when when we get measured right so and even your coaches sorry oh no go ahead finish yeah finish your thought no so your coaches had made some comments too your golf coaches excuse me when make some comments too what were they what were they telling you or what were they seeing what are they observing. well my coach now he actually said so the coach i work with now i've been working with him for, about a year now and he said that like it's crazy how much straighter i hit it, So I think that's a huge thing. And then also my coaches before were definitely noticing like that I was swinging it faster. And they even said like I look stronger too. Right. So yeah. Yeah, there's a control and coordination that comes along with strength. And I see it in the things that I'm involved with, you know, with Brazilian jiu-jitsu and shooting and stuff like that. That it kind of the – at the higher ends of where precision is required and where high levels of technique are required and fatigue is a factor. I mean it's kind of obvious, but people don't think about it as like the stronger you are, the more in control you look, the more coordinated your movements look. And then also just your ability to just do stuff in that kind of environment is just there when you need it. So that's – Yeah, that's definitely a thing. Pete, you went into this with – it's kind of interesting. I think you made a – comment that you didn't really know what uh club that club head speed was a metric so you went into this with kind of no expectations other than here's this uh this young woman athlete i'm just going to get her strong and then along the way you learn that um this is actually having a i mean we knew that something was going to happen you knew that something was going to happen but but it's actually having like a direct impact measurable direct impact in her performance right. yeah i think we were excited because like i said she mentioned i coached her father matt for a while and he and i had been talking about this for a while like i want to definitely get mckenna lifting it's going to improve her game he's definitely a proponent of the program this would be a great just pure example of the two-factor model at work right where we didn't do anything that looked like golf or came close to looking like golf in the weight room we just did the exercises that we knew would elicit the best that. absolutely, for strength and let her do her thing with her golf coaches and the two, things, you know, dovetailed nicely into an increase in performance that, that she spoke about earlier, both in, in the individual metrics, as well as, you know, some of the finishes in the tournament where she's played. So yeah, it was a great opportunity to showcase that, that two factor opportunity, uh, two factor, uh, approach. Right. Yeah. McKenna did, did dad ever, um, push this on you at all, or was it just your idea? It sounded initially that it was kind of your idea, but was, was he, was he, uh, was he kind of pushing you to do this? Um, he, he didn't push me, but I never really thought about lifting and I didn't really know, like, it just, it's not super common, I guess, in the golf world. So I never really thought about it. And, but my dad said, you know, if you really want to see, like, start hitting the ball farther than I think this would really help you. And I actually, before I started, um, with P, He would just help me in the garage because we have like a setup in the garage and I would do like 80 pound deadlifts and like 50 pound squats. And just thinking, just thinking about even getting to like a hundred pound deadlift seemed pretty hard. So, but yeah, he, he definitely, I guess he helped me start and yeah, since then it's taken off. Well, yeah, it's cool. Uh, and, uh, it's. cool that we, uh, we got you early, um, because I don't know, how aware are you of what strength and conditioning looks like for athletes generally? And then specifically for golf, like, did you, did you do anything, uh, like in the strength and conditioning realm before working with, uh, Pete at Starter Strength Orlando, or was it just strictly golf, practicing golf up until that point? So we had workouts, um, in the academy two or three times a week, but it wasn't, it wasn't, a lot of strength stuff it was more of like golf specific movements it was like mobility and kind. of speed stuff right which like in theory that will help but I think like before you can do that just having the strength to actually be able to bring that strength into that kind of training like you need that so I think I didn't really see a ton of progress when I was only doing that but now that I have like the overall strength I it's definitely I've seen a lot of progress yeah that's that's typically the uh the approach and that's typically the the standard or the model. for strength and conditioning and you'll um I mean you're going you're going off to play in college in the fall right so you'll probably be exposed to this and you'll see it but uh most standard model strength and conditioning is is a kind of a blend of strength slash functional strength and conditioning and you'll probably be exposed to this and you'll see it but, Training and the sport, right? So you have this, this like melding of trying to improve technique while in the weight room or while in the strength and conditioning room. And exactly like you said, you don't tend to see much, uh, much improvement out of people, uh, mostly because you're not developing the fundamental, uh, athletic attributes, right? Which are strength and conditioning with golf. Um, I mean, how much is conditioning an aspect? It is definitely an aspect, but you could probably cover most of that through strength and then just, just doing golf. Uh, so the most fundamental, um, physical attribute, the most fundamental thing that's going to improve athleticism. And there's like this, uh, I don't want to ramble too much, but there's this kind of, there's this kind of like debate in some people's minds where is golf a sport or is golf a game? So one of the things that, that Ripito has, has, uh, mentioned a couple of times, and it's a really good way to think about it is, you know, it, it goes into a sport when strength or training. So he says when training is a, is a variable. that can be that can manipulate performance. I would say that it's if athleticism is a factor, then it's a sport, right? And there's no denying that that golf is a sport because athleticism is a factor. And you know, you're a testament to that for sure. As you've improved your athleticism, your golf game has improved their strength and conditioning coaches that deal with golf, you know, so for sure. But if athleticism is the fundamental component of performance that needs to be improved, because skill is always going to be highly specific, right, it's going to be specific to your swing, to the way that you approach the game. And and anything, whatever, whatever tweaks need to be need to be accounted for specifically for you, that's 100% the job of your of your golf coach, because he's an expert in those positions, movements, and all the variables that are required to improve performance in that skill. As soon as you step out of the skill base, and you're you move into athleticism. You have to start with strength, then it's conditioning, and then conditioning on a very basic level, and then it moves into more specific needs for the athlete. And I think what you'll find, I think what everybody will find, is that with something like golf, focusing on strength probably covers most of your athleticism needs. And then everything else can just be high skill, right? It needs to be improving skill and constantly refining the technique. So I know that was a lot. I threw it at you. But do you have any thoughts, both of you guys, what are your thoughts on that? No, I think, again, just to reiterate what I had said earlier, I think I was dying for the opportunity to do this, and I was really looking forward to seeing what the improvements were going to be to her game. And the other thing is, too, is that I think McKenna has it a bit. of an anomaly working with, you know, I worked with plenty of teenagers, but McKenna is a bit of an anomaly that she's a little more well-adjusted and mature, uh, for her age. She shows up to training and stuff. She's, she's curious. She shows up, she's curious about stuff. She'll ask her questions. So she interested in, in what's going on and, um, so that she can improve on it. Um, and she just did what, you know, she did what was asked of her. Um, she was honest when stuff was, we may not be going a hundred percent. Um, and so that feedback was necessary. Um, and, uh, you know, we, we did our best to play with, uh, the hand we were dealt when she had to, when she could be in the gym or plan for when she wasn't able to be in the gym. So, but, um, but yeah, I don't know what the future holds, um, for the program at, at her new school, what the expectations are, because you and I know that athletes are just told what they have to do. And, and, seldom are they allowed the autonomy to just go and lift or do other things. Right. So. Um, you know, I'm, I'm hoping that, you know, she's got my number so she can reach out if she wants and she has asked questions or wants to a little mini program. I'm happy to, to help however I can. Um, you know, and I think that, uh, we're looking forward to some, some bigger things to come as she continues to grow, uh, and excited to see, uh, you know, what's possible. So. So, yeah, I bet if you keep the barbell lifts in your training at some level, you'll, you'll be just fine. I mean, you're going to keep getting, uh, you're going to keep getting stronger and, and probably, I mean, you're 18, so you're going to still grow a little bit. So you'll just keep getting stronger and, uh, and that should translate nicely over into your, into your golf game. Um, you know, and then you can just arm wrestle the other girls too on the, on the, on the course. And like, if there's ever a problem, there's arm wrestle. Of course. Um, so what's, so, so what's the plan then? What's the plan going into college? So, I mean, I'm assuming you guys are training, right? You're training right now in the gym. Um, what's the schedule look like for you? So how many days do you train? How many? days to you do you do golf and then what's your plan going into the fall and in the future so, for golf we have practice every weekday and then on the weekends we can kind of do our own thing we're still kind of expected to go out and practice on our own but for workouts we do twice a week at six or twice or three times a week at 6 a.m so I know they they do deadlifts and they. do squats and stuff like that um this is that this is when you get to school this is what's gonna happen okay so we'll have that um it's definitely a lot like we because we have our workouts and then we have practice for like four to five hours right but we also have time to, work out on our own like on the weekends and stuff so I think, I'll still, I'll definitely, I'll still be lifting. And I think they, they do like a lot of. the, a lot of similar things as I'm doing right now. So I don't think it should be too big of a change or an adjustment. Good. Which is good. Yeah. What's, uh, in the collegiate setting, what is, um, is golf year round or is it, uh, is there a season? So it's, it's kind of year round. It's August to like end of October for the fall and then January through, it kind of depends how far you get in like a conference regionals and nationals, but it would be either. January to April or May. So it's, it's almost year round. And then you are, you're also kind of, expected to play your own tournaments during the summer, um, or winter break. So, when you're, um, so, so right now, but, Between now and, I'm assuming you leave for school sometime in August, right? Yeah. What's your current kind of program for lifting and golf? So during the summer, I mean, I'm traveling a lot, so it's kind of hard to have like a consistent lifting schedule. Sure, yeah. So I try to go, whenever we're here, I go three times a week, whenever we can. But I can't really lift when we're traveling because there's not really gyms that can have like the barbell stuff. So I don't get to do it as much in the summer. But during the school year, I would go pretty consistently Monday, Wednesday, Friday. And then, Pete, whenever she's in town, you're just kind of picking up where you left off, taking a little bit of a deload. So I'm assuming the programming is pretty basic, right? Yeah. At this point, it is. It looks like, yeah, I mean, it looks like intermediate. at programming where, uh, with, with a few adjustments based on why she was out. So it was a grueling three day tournament. She's coming back the next day. It's unlikely I'm going to have her try to hit something top end. Right. Um, so we'll, we'll adjust it based on what we see in the gym and provide a range and then figure out, okay, can we hit this, hit this number? Let's at least hear the top triple or a top single and something. And then we'll do some back off stuff. And then depending on how many days that week I have her, I'll, I'll, you know, make an adjustment. So she'll come in tonight. We'll squat a little heavy, maybe a red press or bench press deadlift a little lighter, and then she'll deadlift heavy on Thursday. Um, and then squat a little lighter and do, uh, you know, the opposite upper body stuff. So we're trying to try to our best to maintain and hold on, got to see where we're at. Um, so yeah, it's, it's, that's one of the things I think was, was tough getting my head around, uh, honestly, as a coach was just, uh, dealing. with, um, you know, dealing with some of the inconsistencies because I'm just, I'm just, I'm out for good reason. It wasn't like McKenna just said. I'm taking off. She's out. Right. She's out doing her thing. Right. Yep. Yeah. To keep in mind. And I think a lot of strength coaches, especially newer strength coaches got to get their head around that, you know, for not everyone isn't strength. Isn't the thing for everyone. Like this is a means to an end for her. Golf is the thing. So everything serves that. So getting my head around that and making certain that, that, you know, I understood that we have to make some adjustments outside of the norm. You know, it was a learning for me as well, but keeping in mind, like not strength, isn't the thing for everyone. Like this, this was a means to an end. And as long as people see that strength is helping the, the, the thing that they care about, then they'll continue to do it. And the minute you start making it about strength or the strength training and beating up on them about that, you know, I think you're going to have a hard time. So for the newer coaches out there, the coaches trying to get their heads around this, that would be, that would be the lesson that I learned that I I'd share. Um, what, Certainly, I would love to have her longer for three, four, five months in a row without interruption, but that just isn't reality for a golfer. So I'm sorry, Nick. What were you going to say? No, no. Very well said, man. And I think in our situation with starting strength gyms, the number of people that strength is the thing, and when we say that, I mean it's like they're there because they're either – they really, really enjoy lifting as their primary hobby and getting stronger and getting bigger. Or they're a specialized strength athlete. The number of people in the quote-unquote real world, right? And this doesn't just apply to starting strength gyms. It applies to just personal training clients in general. The number of people that fall under that category are actually very, very low or very small. The starting strength community, so to speak, in other words, people who are fans of starting strength, the number of people who are there for the strength. So, yeah. I'm not talking about like – startingstrength.com, listeners of Starting Strength Radio, people who are fans of Starting. Strength, that number is much, much higher, right? They enjoy the process of strength training. They enjoy the hard physical effort of barbell training, and they enjoy all the stuff surrounding that. When you're dealing with people in a personal training or a small group training or in a gym context, that is going to be a small group of people. And our job is to make barbell training work within the context of whatever their thing is, whether it's golf, in McKenna's. instance, or trail running or biking or Brazilian jiu-jitsu, whatever their physical hobbies are, that's their thing. And our job is to make strength training work for them. That doesn't mean we do anything different. I mean, we just have to account for it, right? So you have to account for whatever else is going on. How hard is golf on your body? And McKenna, this is going to be tough for you to answer because, Cause you're 18 years old and there's nothing is probably hard on your body really. But, uh, and you know, this is a question for both of you guys, but for you McKenna as a, as an 18 year old athlete, um, other than fatigue, right? Cause I imagine if you're out for three days in the sun hitting, hitting a ball, walking around a course, it's fatiguing. Um, but anything else in terms of like shoulders, knees, ankles, hips, back, anything, is there anything particularly that's rough about golf on your body? Um, I would say sometimes it can be a little bit hard on your back just because, um, especially if you are out like just practicing all day. Um, and you know, if you don't have good posture, obviously that's pretty bad on your back, but it can be hard on your back sometimes. And then with like walking tournaments, it's, it is very taxing on your body. Like I'll be done with a tournament round and I just need to go late, down for like an hour. But, um, I would say since I've gotten stronger, that's definitely changed a little bit. I'm not as like shot as I, as I used to be after a round. And, um, I'm also able to walk hillier courses. and still be able to play well and not be so tired from walking so much. Right. So, yeah. Pete, any experience with maybe older guys playing golf, anything particularly, um, rough on their bodies from golf? Yeah. I mean, I would agree with the back and obviously it's, it's a little, depending on how long they're playing and what condition they're in to begin with. I think, um, yeah, you gotta be careful with, cause I could see it when McKenna would come in, like we should start squatting in the back or, or she deadlift in the back, just wouldn't hold. the way you normally would. And you're just like, all right, let's, that makes sense. You know, with the older guys, they're also have some extra aches and pains, knees. shoulders hips and that kind of stuff and you're working around you're working around that but every every one of them to a man will tell you yeah they're recovering faster than if they hadn't been lifting sure um and lifting in a lot of cases depending on what the ailment is it makes it feel better so just coming in and doing that um even if it's not as heavy as possible that day is going to make them feel a bit better they're maintaining something there so but um yeah anything at 17 18. years old you're not having a lot of a lot of aches and pains uh there some of the some of the older guys and gals in the gym do um that have you know that have played it and no one's playing it well maybe one person is playing at the the amount that mckenna is playing and um but he's we're pretty careful with him too so good well mckenna what are your um uh what are your aspirations what are your goals what are your aspirations what do you uh what do you hope's going to happen in the next two to three years um i mean. you know, I'd like to be, obviously, successful with college golf and win as a team and individually if I can. And then I would like to play pro golf and just see where that takes me. I didn't used to want to play pro. I kind of just saw it, you know, like I would play in college and then that would kind of be it. But now I think I definitely I want to play professional golf and just see how long I can do it and see where the game takes me. And the good thing with golf is that you can play almost your whole life. Like, yeah. So, yeah, that's my vision, I guess. So we get starting strength gym sponsorship later on. Let's do it. Yeah. Wear it on my shirt. Oh, no, you got to you got to tattoo it. You got to get it. It's it's it's. All in or nothing. Well, cool. Anything else you guys want to talk about before we wrap up? Well, let me ask one last question, McKenna. For people who want to do golf, right? I mean, if this is going to be your thing, you have to start as a kid, right? I mean, you've got to start as a little kid basically at this point. Is it like, I mean, a lot of sports are like that now. So competitive. There's so many people out there. Is that the case? Yeah, I would say it's definitely better. The younger you start and it's getting even more and more competitive younger now. Like my sister, she's 13 and the girls her age are so good. But at the same time, you can really pick it up at any time. I had a friend who she just graduated from South Alabama. She played for them and she started when she was... 13 or 14 playing golf and she played division one so okay um it's definitely better the earlier you can start but it's at the same time it's really it's never too late to start playing. golf you can kind of learn it at any age or any time do you have any idea how many times you swing a golf club in a week oh my gosh um i i would say i've never thought about that probably probably like at least 200 times a day so i don't know what that math is like 1400 1500 yeah yeah okay or a thousand something like that yeah if you do all seven. days right 1400 yeah a thousand to fifteen hundred swings per week um yeah that's, that's quite a bit you know because there's a thing about like 10 000 reps right 10 000 hours are not reps 10 000 hours uh i mean you've definitely probably hit that but most most people doing a hobby something at a like a hot you know once once a week maybe every other week or something it's just like i think people and this applies to all kinds of domains. all kinds of realms all kinds of things that require skill it's just like the difference between somebody who who is uh training and practicing and performing at a high level which all those those three things are like usually closely tied right unless you have some kind of like real freak person out there but somebody who's who's operating at that level versus you know a hobbyist or even somebody who just kind of dabbles it's it's a whole different world right it's just a completely different uh spectrum completely different world uh and in a lot of a lot of things where uh the where the activity is accessible to everybody and golf is definitely. one of those things where you're just like you're just like you're, just accessible you know anybody anybody can go to the golf shop, Spend five, 10, whatever it costs, five, 10 grand or whatever to get all the equipment and then, uh, and get all geared up and look good. And then, um, you know, but, but it's, it's just a whole different story and it applies to, you know, it applies to all kinds of shooting, you know, um, pickleball, whatever. So I always think that's really, really fascinating. It's like the amount of work that you're putting in every single week and layering on top of that, being a student, layering on top of that strength, strength work, um, and everything else. It's, uh, it's really, really impressive. It's cool stuff. Pete, anything from you? No, I would just say that McKenna brings up a good point, especially if it's getting more competitive in that world, uh, that you're going to have to, people are going to have to find a way to differentiate themselves. Um, and I think strength training is something that is somewhat talked about in the golf world, but not to the extent that it should be. And I think more and more people are realizing, okay, yeah, if I get stronger, uh, this is going to only improve my game, but hopefully this episode and kind of what we've gone through with McKenna will help. to reinforce that because if it is getting more competitive, as she said, then there's not much more you're going to, you can find the best golf coaches, you can find the best golf clubs, find the best golf technique, but the differentiator that I think is untapped for a lot of people is just getting in the gym and squatting and deadlifting and pressing and benching heavy. And you'll obviously, we've seen the results of that here. I mean, N equals one, but still there's a tough stuff to argue with. So yeah, it's a great point, man. Because the techniques, especially with something like golf, something that's very popular, it's practiced by countless people. The technical aspects of it are, in other words, nobody's going to come along in the next five years and completely transform the game in terms of how it's done or how the, club is swung, how you swing the club. You know what I'm saying? From a technical aspect, there's tweaks, there's small things, and there's little tricks and stuff. You'll always have the next new thing, but it's really not that different, right? As far as equipment goes, yeah, like that's constantly getting better, constantly improving. There's a huge market, obviously, for golf and golf-related things. So there's definitely pressure to continually improve and continually evolve from like an equipment standpoint. But again, how much different is it, right? How much different is the next greatest club going to be from the last one? And then also, in your case, you're probably limited by the rules of whatever the tournament is, right, and actually what you can use. And again, I want to kind of make this point a little broader than just golf because it applies to really anything that people are interested in doing. The variables that you can control because you can't control necessarily what – Yeah, absolutely. products come out, you can't really, you're not going to reinvent the wheel. And people try to do this all the time. You're not going to reinvent like a whole new technique for things. And time after time, what you find is just consistent execution on like really, really good consistent execution on the basics is what really pushes performance. And then consistent execution on fundamental physical attributes, your base athleticism. So those two things, it's like your athleticism, which in our world, our contention is that strength training is the way to do that. And then on the technique side, or on the skill side, it's just it's just mastering the basics, you know, which is almost a cliche at this cliche at this point. But yeah, so it's a it's a great point. And I think I think it kind of needs to be restated that if you want to differentiate yourself, or said another way, if you want to improve your performance, the most surefire way that you will do that is by improving your athleticism. by getting stronger. Uh, I mean, you really can't say it any, any, um, any simpler because. here we have an individual, I mean, McKenna, who's been doing, who's been playing golf for 10 years. Um, and it was obviously very good, right? High level of skill. And then we plug in, barbell training. And I don't think, I don't think I'm overstating this. Like we plug in barbell training at some point, and then all of a sudden your performance metrics that you've been tracking for as long as you, as you've been doing it probably, um, just, just make this kind of like big leap, like this big jump. Um, and, and it's not, again, it's not unique to golf. It's really cool that in this instance, you, uh, you've managed to put it all together into these. like really impressive performances and gotten yourself a scholarship and won the, uh, what's the name of the, of the golf tournament that you won last year again? Um, it was the U S kids teen world championship. U S it's a mouthful U S kids teen world championship. So yeah, very cool. Like all that kind of comes together into these, uh, into these, uh, sort of special circumstances. So congratulations. Um, Okay, guys, anything else you think we should talk about before we finish up? No. Just wish McKenna luck on her career moving forward at South Alabama. And we'll be sorry to see her go and look forward to her sister coming in right behind her. Yeah. But it's been a pleasure to work with McKenna. I can't say enough great things about her dedication and her commitment and her focus in the gym. And I'm just happy to have had the opportunity to work with her. Thanks. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it on ESPN five years from now or something when they're showing clips of McKenna because she's this golf superstar. And then this podcast episode is like a clip because she's 18 years old. Yeah, it pops up there. Yeah, and then there's Pete standing. It's going to be awesome. Can't wait. All right, guys. Well, thank you very much. This was great. I really appreciate your time. McKenna, congratulations. I'm looking forward to seeing you. To be honest, I've never had any interest in golf. I think we'll all definitely follow along and see how you're doing. And then, folks, thank you very much for joining us. Again, if you have any questions or topic ideas, send them to podcast at ssgyms.com, and we will see you next time. Thank you.